Could you please answer some honest questions?
1.To be saved must one trust and completely rely on Jesus’ death burial and ressurrection *alone* or does baptism avail to us that saccrifice?
2. What about cults that use the rite of baptism? Does their baptism count for salvation? If not, how come?
3. Whose name do we have Baptised in, in order to be saved?
4. What about the the death bed convert? How can he be baptised?
5. What is the Greek meaning of the word Baptize?
6. Why are all the saints in the Bible baptized *after* they are saved, and not as babies?
7. How come, in the scriptures, where it talks about salvation and how to become saved, it only says faith in *Christ*. Not faith in our Baptism.
One more comment. I was Baptized in a Christian church 5 times, and still not saved. Why not? Because I was trusting works and the law instead of only Jesus as my “complete sin bearer”.
But could you please answer these questions, because they are honest, and I am curious to know how some people believe that Baptism avails them to Christ.
Thanks

It is clear Dawn that you have given a lot of thought to these questions. I will do my best in responding.

First, while it is true that trust alone saves, we believe, teach and confess that for infants baptism creates that trust and for adults baptism is God’s way of signing the spiritual adoption papers that you are His child.

Second, true cults are not Christan and therefore even if they use the proper words, their baptisms are invalid. What makes the baptism valid is to use them according to God’s command.

Third, in whose name are we to be baptized is answered in two ways. We are to be baptized in the name of Jesus. However, the words to accomplish that baptism are found in Matthew 28, “Into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Fourth, what about the death bed convert? Ask the thief on the cross who heard that, “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” It is not necessasry to be baptized in order to be saved; it is necessary to receive faith in Jesus Christ. Check out Mark 16:16.

Fifth, the Greek meaning of the word to “baptize” is “to apply water.” The Bible uses the word not only in the washing of cups but also of tables. No one washes a table by dunking it in the bathtub; we only apply water to its top.

Sixth, from Acts 2 Peter preached that the baptism of those thousands included the promise “to you and your children.” Children were definitely baptized. One could also ask why the Bible does not record that anyone over 80 years old was baptized? Does that mean that we ought not baptize 80 year olds? No more than that we ought not baptize an infant who is 8 hours old.

Seventh, if a child who is adopted is asked how he knows he was adopted he might answer, “Because my parents told me.” Yet, if he ever doubted his parents, to what would he go? He would go to his adoption papers. So also, God in His infinite wisdom has provided us assurance that we are His children by attaching His promises to the sacrament of Baptism.

Thanks so much for your percepetive questions and don’t hesitate to amplify them on the basis of my answers. Blessings.

If I might add some helps as to why one can actually trust one’s baptism that come down to the personal mental/spiritual/psychological level. Off course it is first key to understand that it is God’s baptism and not mine or the pastor’s, but God’s given to me. But this is the wonderful condescension God gives us to our weakness. He’s done it before in sacraments such as circumcision and the sign of the rainbow. That is these things are not something from God in that in and of themselves but that He has “empowered” them if you will. That’s first crucial to grasp.

Second, as we battle with assurance of salvation, the “am I really a Christian and saved” when Satan attacks. This is usually during times of looking intensely for “fruit” or some evidences of conversion/rebirth/regeneration or when our faith seems so weak as to itself to be doubted, what do we have to help us in that time?

Because the question in our minds is not “is the Gospel real” but is it real “TO ME”. The general Word of the Gospel should always be first and for most TO ME but at times of true spiritual warfare we are weak to trusting the “naked” word of Good News. So the question becomes how is it TO ME, how do I know it is TO ME. This is not unusual for Abram asked the same thing of God during God’s promise (which was the Gospel) to him and his seed and the nations and God gave him the sign of circumcision which was to help him KNOW it was TO HIM and, note this well, TO HIS SEED.

So, is a true grasp of baptism. Why? Because baptism contains the Gospel GIVEN TO ME just as it does in being GIVEN TO INFANTS. You see unlike the general call of the Gospel how do I know the Gospel is TO ME in these struggles? God has put ON MY body HIS Gospel, HE has given it TO ME not just the general public. How do you know you are God’s and saved as opposed to a buddy and fellow brother in the faith also called by the Gospel? BECAUSE of Baptism GIVEN TO YOU, the Gospel given TO YOU.

You see the Gospel also is the CAUSE of the receptacle of faith and the strengthener of that faith. IF you can grasp that and the fact that the Gospel is in the Baptismal waters (not some magic or ordinance/law) then you can easily see why it is not absurd to baptize infants. We are not baptized for God’s need but for our own weakness. If you view baptism as an ordinance, a law, in some since to “please” God, then of course it becomes Satan’s weapon against you and then one rededicates, rebaptizes and “re____” whatever just like Rome did. But if you see it as Gospel, which is pictured best in infants who can only receive, that is the Gospel can only be given and received and causes/strengthens faith, then you can with Luther say to Satan when he accuses you and tries to make you doubt your salvation and faith say, “No Satan, I AM baptized.” That is to be clothed with Christ, that is to have the right wedding clothes ON. Baptism is the wedding clothes of Christ and the Gospel.

It is tremendous to realize that God condescended to one personally (to the man/woman specifically, TO ME/YOU) in a first baptism to GIVE us His Son. This is largely Paul’s point in Romans 6 and why baptism is once and never repeated. Because it points to that one time death and resurrection of Christ that we are UNITED to Him by one time in the one baptism. Paul’s point in Romans 6 about our unification in Christ in baptism, the death and burial, goes to the very point of spiritual warfare and just why it must be once. JUST SO we will believe and be strengthened when Romans 7 comes along and “I do not do what I want to do but the evil that I don’t want to do that I do.” As Christ died once and WAS resurrected SO is that reality for us and this is captured in the one baptism which IS death and burial for us. The difference for us lies in the fact that in the “here and now” of this life we lay in the tension of its accomplishment “now” and “not yet”. That is we still have the flesh with us and our final glorification when we will FINALLY know and do no more sin is still “not yet”. This gives a tension to deal with in our daily lives. But this very tension is why FAITH or TRUST is necessary in this life. IF you could be perfectly sanctified in this life where would be the necessity of faith alone? And worse if you could be perfect in this life and still had flesh, can you imagine the arrogance and pride of that flesh toward others (e.g. the Pharisees)? Which would over throw “perfect sanctification” altogether. Thus, we lie IN this life IN our baptism IN faith. That’s Paul’s point, as it was pointed out to me, in Romans 6 and why he brings up baptism as well. Which leads to Romans 7, the Christians constant battle and struggle, that could lead to doubt without the indicative reality in Romans 6, and the crescendo at the end of Paul in Romans 7 saying, “Who will deliver me from this body of death, thanks be to Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Thus, when Satan rages and accuses I/we can say, “NO Satan, I AM baptized (in reality ALREADY IN SPITE OF MY FLESH’s actions and doings, buried with in Christ’s crucifixion and raised to the new ness of life – IS right now by declaration and imputation and the “will be fully realized part”, the “not yet part” of my sanctification, my personal full change, will be FOR SURE when I die and go to heaven).

Larry
KY

If a pereson is baptized in a church that looks at it basically as a believer’s dedication service and later that person comes to understand that it is something different than that is a different baptism in order?

My thought is no. But I was wondering what you thought.

steve s

For a baptism to have taken place properly, it must have two aspects. It must be valid and it must be effective. What makes it effective is that the person receives faith. But to be effective it first must be valid. The validity of the sacrament is based on whether it is properly done according to the intention of Jesus Christ. In a worship setting in which the baptism is not intended as a sacrament but only a dedication of some nature, then the baptism is not valid anymore than it would be if a group of children “did” baptisms in a sandbox. Depending on where the baptism took place, I would inquire from the present pastor what the intent of the baptism was. If there is any doubt that it was a valid baptism, then I would do a proper baptism. I hope this is helpful.