I am having an email conversation with a leader in church I attended for 20 years. The issue has been “how do we measure fruit”. They say that there “must” be change and somehow it can be measured. I say that there is change (faith) but we cannot lay the burden on a person as to what any change can be since changing behaviors is a psychological issue not a theological issue.

I have used your Example of Matt 25 as a support of this: They did not know so how can we tell someone “this must happen or you are not really a disciple”?

The basis of their thoughts seem to stem from misreading some scriptures such as Rom 8. They take the first few verses to mean, “if you are led by the spirit you will start being able to fulfill the law and thus be under less condemnation”. If they really thought about it this leads to the position that if you sin, even once, you are not saved.

I take it to mean that God looks at us as already having fulfilled the Law because of the work of Christ and that being led by the spirit has more to do with seeing than doing.

So, having been influneced by listening to you program, I am asking you if my stand seems clear.

Steve S

I was born and raised in a loving Roman Catholic family. As a young Christian I was acquainted with the fact that Christ died for my sins. However, my understanding of salvation and the Final Judgment assumed the usual human viewpoint of an accounting balance sheet: God will evaluate my good deeds to see if they outweigh my bad deeds. This understanding, that God grades on a curve, is the dominant one in all religions, even most Christian denominations. Lutheranism has greatly assisted my orthodoxy in understanding and applying biblical truths. Prior to my experience with Lutheranism there was a failure at distinguishing between the temporal and spiritual kingdoms as well as Law and Gospel. I recall that the Gospel was never clearly taught and defined as a young Christian. There was always an elusiveness to the comfort of the Gospel: just when I “got it”, it tended to slip away and I resorted back to the Law of the balance sheet concept. The Truth was simply difficult to grasp and retain, primarily because most denomination fail to constantly reinforce the message. As St Paul told his readers – they may have heard the message several times before, but they need to hear it again! Lutheranism does just this – it is a “broken record” for a reason: men need to continue to hear the Gospel repeated over and over until their minds begin to absorb the Truth and are renewed. The heart can hear the Gospel and believe it immediately, thereby obtaining salvation. However, it is not a “one time” matter as far as the human brain is concerned. What am I referring to? To the wonderful Gospel message: believers have already been judged by God – the atonement of Christ has fully paid for their sins so that God has legally declared them Not Guilty! With this great comfort, a man can read 2Cor 5:10 and automatically understand that this cannot possibly be a “balance sheet” oriented verse for believers since they have already been judged. It must therefore imply judgment in terms of rewards for believers and condemnation for unbelievers.

Frank Marron

As to Frank’s comments, I thank you for your words and pray that they will be beneficial to others as they have been to me.

As to Steve’s comments, I would add the following. First of all, I appreciate your insights, especially your use of Matthew 25. How sad that those who use Romans 8 do not recognize that to walk in the Spirit is not to do sinless works but to live a life of continual repentance. For if we were truly able to be sinless, then we would no longer need the cross of Christ in this life. Walking in the flesh is to enjoy the fruit of sin and not be concerned about the wrath of God; walking in the spirit is to enjo the fruit of the Holy Spirit–one of which is to move us to repent of our sinful lives and turn to the cross of Christ for forgiveness and salvation. Thanks again for your contribution.

Great food for the soul! I wish I could get both Dr. Baker and many of the posters on this blog together for a round table lunch once a month just as a recharge, though I’m far far from rich, I’d buy! Geographically that’s impossible, but it is so refreshing to hear these passages under living under the Gospel. Between what one normally hears even among brothers in the faith, the devil’s daily accusations and the old man it’s impossible to give yourself the Gospel. My old man is always getting in front of the TV so I can’t see the Gospel very well in them!

Mathew 25 was an epiphany for me a few months back on Law and Gospel. Because one thing is for certain, I can’t see any good works within and I don’t mean that in an artificial trying to be humble way either. Even those things that changed in my life I see the sin clinging to it, they are worse in a way than the rank sin I use to do outwardly and with impunity.

Along Mathew 25 lines, one thing I seem to recall Luther saying in his Heidelberg Disputation or alluding to it was similar to this; that the one “had” by the cross is repulsed by what he formerly was drawn to (his works, especially the good ones on the outside) and is now drawn to what he was formerly repulsed of (the Cross of Christ). It would seem to follow that one whose repulsion and drawing is so dramatically and diametrically reversed, would indeed eschew his good works not artificially as in false humility, but as one might repulse at the stench of dung found in one’s hands (this he formerly loved to hold and cuddle). And simultaneously Christ becomes greater than all gold so that he clings to Him above all else, this cross he formerly saw as utter foolishness and repulsion.

Larry
KY